Wednesday, November 29, 2006

Delahunty (cont.)

I'm glad to see all the reaction my post below on bringing in Professor Delahunty is getting. I think it's an important conversation to have and good points are being made on both sides. There have been some more developments on this for anyone who remains interested:

  • Nine* professors at the law school wrote an open letter opposing the hiring of Professor Delahunty.
  • The Minnesota Daily has an article on the topic, including a claim that the authors of the above-linked letter take issue with.**
  • The St. Paul Pioneer Press also has an article in it, notable primarily for quoting me for the conservative viewpoint (and people say there is no liberal media bias! Oh wait, those people include me...).
  • The City Pages picked up on a claim in the Pioneer Press article that "U officials apparently didn't realize that Delahunty also co-authored one of the most controversial legal opinions from the nation's war on terror and that hiring him could prompt criticism on campus," asking "Do they have the internets at the U of M Law School?" From the Press article, it looks like Dean Morrison was unaware of Delahunty's authorship of the memos before hiring him, though the articles misrepresent the situation by using the plural of 'official.'
  • Finally, the City Pages question about whether we at the U Law School have internets seems justified on one other point, since the letter from the professors linked above was supposedly sent out to the student body via e-mail, yet we never got it.
  • Volokh Conspirators Jonathan Adler and David Bernstein have also weighed in. I noticed when hits on this site started spiking, as Professor Adler kindly linked here.
*The letter concludes by saying that the professors who signed were just the ones around when the draft was being written, so it represents a lower limit on opposition, rather than an upper one.

**"Paulsen also said the protests are coming from a few extreme individuals in the Law School.

"That's a gross violation of academic ethics and academic freedom," he said.

Paulsen attributes the uproar to one professor in particular he said has an ideological problem with those who disagree with his legal point of view. Paulsen declined to name the professor.

"It sometimes happens that even professors are not respecters of academic freedom and get their facts wrong, too," he said."


So, does the tone in my bullet points mean I've changed my position on the Delahunty hiring? No, it just means that there is some rather unsavory stuff happening around the hiring and Delahunty would probably be better off with different defenders. For example, the claim from Professor Paulsen about "a gross violation of academic ethics and academic freedom" is, at best, hyperbolic alarmism. I think Professor Paulsen just likes to ratchet up his rhetoric to match that of the people he's arguing against, but that detracts from his credibility (and as the law professors' letter notes, his credibility is further reduced by claiming this is one rogue professor). Finally, his claim that this is coming from extreme individuals is neither necessary nor proper, to go with some Con Law lingo. Many people would consider Paulsen to hold extreme views, and I doubt he would enjoy having those views dismissed on that basis.

Also, the failure of Dean Morrison to know that Delahunty co-authored a torture memo is really disappointing. He should have known before making the offer. My guess--and this isn't to make an excuse, since it doesn't excuse him, it just explains--is that the information failure stems in part from our two-headed Dean problem. Charles could have known and not thought it important, or each could have thought the other was more active in the vetting process. (I should also note that if Dean Morrison wants to retract the offer on this basis, that's fine, but I don't think it's necessary. Amy Bergquist--also quoted in the Pioneer Press article--told me that, at a meeting with affected 1Ls, Dean Morrison said that an obstacle to withdrawal is due process, since the offer's been made and accepted. As Amy said, that doesn't strike me as crucial, since if the U changed its mind, it could offer to pay the contract plus a premium to get out of it and likely not face problems.) (UPDATE: According to commenter Adam, "[i]t was explicitly stated at a staff meeting today that neither Dean knew about the memos when they hired Delahunty." Like I said above, this serious mistake might be attributed to the two-headed Dean issue, so I wouldn't necessarily agree with Adam that the process should be changed because of it, but it is a big issue that "we can't trust the Deans to conduct even the most basic inquiry into the people they're bringing in to teach here." There should probably be some blowback for it, at least a public apology from them. And it stands reiteration that if, knowing what they now know, they wouldn't have hired Delahunty, then they should withdraw the offer and thank the people who brought it to their attention. UPDATE END.)

So onto substance, since I know that's why you all come here, to read my arguments, not read me summarize other peoples' arguments (right? Right? Please?). I have to say that I didn't find the professors' article particularly convincing. Their ultimate claim is that
Our opposition to the hiring of Mr. Delahunty has got absolutely nothing to do with academic freedom but all to do with legal ethics. Mr. Delahunty's role in the Torture Memos was not academic and we object to hiring someone of his credentials rather than to anything that he may say in class should he be so hired or concerns about his scholarly research or academic work.
Fine and good. But if he truly believes his arguments in the torture memo are a statement of the law, why should it make a difference whether he did it in pursuit of academics or public service? It still seems to me Professor Delahunty is being opposed for having gone to work for the government, whereas if he'd shot straight to academia, there would be no problem. I'm in favor of people engaging in government service, so the incentives here seem to me to line up the wrong way. But let's roll with this--what do the professors have to say about Delahnty's ethical problems?

They quote an Amnesty International statement "call[ing] upon state bar authorities to investigate the Administration lawyers alleged to be involved in the torture scandal for failing to meet professional responsibility standards." All right, which standards? Unfortunately, the statement does not say, I suppose because it's evident to them.

The professors also note (as did an anonymous commenter here) that in Hamdan, the Supreme Court rejected the Yoo-Delahunty memo. Yes, they did, but they rejected it 5-4. I'd be very hesitant before claiming that having a position adopted by a substantial minority--even one Justice--of the Supreme Court is prima facie evidence of ethical problems or violations of US law.

We get to the meat of the claim just below, though. "[A]ttorneys providing advice to a client regarding how to circumvent the law may be held complicit in the resulting criminal conduct. . . . [S]uch attorneys may be violating their professional obligations to determine the scope of the law, and to refer to relevant moral and ethical considerations when giving advice." They also quote at length an editorial in the American Journal of International Law, which argues that government attorneys have obligations beyond that of private attorneys, since they represent the government and American public.

But what's the claim here? It looks to me--and please correct me, as I know some of you are itching to do--that the claim is that Delahunty was wrong and should have known he was wrong. Is there really anything more here? Let's concede the first point, that he was wrong. I think he was wrong. The nine professors think he was wrong. Amnesty International thinks he was wrong. But the key point is, he seems to think he was right and there appears to be a decent basis for that belief, since there is support in the scholarly community (e.g., Michael Paulsen) and the judicial community (e.g., the four Hamdan dissenters) for that view. So why exclude him from the academy, again? On the basis of "tainted credentials?" Would those credentials be tainted if (G-d forbid) Hamdan came down the other way? And if not, how can we say they're tainted now? I just don't buy the argument the professors are making here. I might sound like a broken record, but this strikes me as viewpoint-, not credential-based opposition. Please do keep trying to convince me otherwise, though. I enjoy the discussion this is producing and appreciate that the tone has been civil throughout. Let's keep it that way.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ivan -

Your'e doing a great job keeping track of this, so thank you for that. The part of Delahunty's memo that was centrally repudiated in Hamdan was the notion that CA3 did not apply to fighters in Afghanistan. Many other parts of the Delahunty memo (e.g., the president can waive international obligations at will, federal laws that bind the president to follow international agreements are unconstitutional), were not directly addressed. Just because "only" five Justices on the Supreme Court disagreed with Delahunty on one point does make every assertion he made in the memo a "close case."

It was explicitly stated at a staff meeting today that neither Dean knew about the memos when they hired Delahunty. In an era when employers from local dry cleaners to Fortune 500 companies have the common sense to Google their prospective employees, this oversight is disturbing and unacceptable. This vindicates my suspicion that Delahunty got the normal hiring process--nothing. In that sense, I guess I disagree with the staff memo. If we can't trust the Dean's to conduct even the most basic inquiry into the people they're bringing in to teach here, then this controversy should teach us that all hires--permanent, visiting, subs, whatever--should be thoroughly vetted, so we can debate these important issues before the person is hired, and not after the fact like we're doing now.
- Adam

Anonymous said...

Firing a professor because he advised a client that the international war on terror was "international in nature" seems... ludicrous.

I'm not a huge fan of torture, but saying that a lawyer lacks credentials because he gave a client advice on how to interpret a document sends a repulsive message to law students. The law school was created to train advocates, and we're gonna fire this guy because we don't like his client's actions?


Yates

Anonymous said...

I mean for crying out loud, it's just Minesota, it's not like any of you are ever going to amount to anything.

Also, WGWAG

~aznaznazn

Anonymous said...

did you notice that the people at the 4pm meeting who were advocating that minnesota breach it's contract with delahunty couldn't agree with WHY they wanted him fired? Some argued that torture is inherently bad, and he must be responsible for the views of his client, and others argued that his argument was so deficient as to reveal incompetence. Both arguments fail, but it was interesting to see the lack of consensus among his critics.


Yates


P.S. when a pakistani is fighting afghanistan and is captured by an American, I think a competent attorney could characterize the conflict as "international in nature."

UAlum said...

For those of us not at the meeting, could people who were there provide more detail? For example, what did the deans have to say? Was there any final decision announced?

Thaddeus said...

Ah . . . . I finally feel that the incessant urge to weigh in on one of Ivan’s blogs has prevailed over my reclusive blogging nature. So here goes. Since I abhor verbose people I will limit my initial comment to two arguments.

First, I find it strangely contradictory that Delahunty opponents are, generally, the proudest advocates and espousers of human rights and fundamental fairness (Can the two adequately complement each other? Another time perhaps.) yet at the same time they are willing to throw their, ever developing, ideologies to the wind at the first chance in which to demonstrate them. Almost every human rights treaty – including the Geneva Convention - has provisions for due process. Apparently, the Delahunty opponents have forgotten this, for their argument - that someone who has mistakenly interpreted the Geneva Convention has greatly diminished their human rights protections – is a violation of due process. They have tossed Delahunty’s due process rights to the side and would, forevermore, exclude him from any substantial forms of academic employment. Shouldn’t these people be taking the higher road when given the chance? Shouldn’t these people be leading by example? Why aren’t they asking Delahunty to come and openly address his accusers? Why aren’t they giving him a chance to defend himself? If you are going to talk the talk then walk the walk.

Second, I think the practice of law is about advising people on making choices about what is right and wrong. Often there is a thin line between the two. Thank goodness for that. If it were not so, then all of us lawyer wanna bes wouldn’t have any lucrative jobs waiting for us. When asked for advice we give it with competence and diligence if skilled enough to answer the issue. But, the nature of our profession is that we will often be wrong. In a trial, one party’s counsel will be wrong. Even when briefing, one party’s counsel could be wrong. And sometimes, a party may just want to know what the absolute edge of the line is. According to Delahunty opponents, anyone who has been wrong or who has walked to close to the edge of the line (and in their opinion, the wrong edge) should be excluded from academia in top 20 law schools. At best, their reasoning is pretentious and at worst it is, in itself, unethical. Under the opponent’s rubric, most attorneys would be excluded from ever teaching in a law school. There is a valid argument that this sort of exclusion might be best but, I think the argument is based more on humor than on practicality. I believe that this is what Professor Paulsen was leaning towards when he said that the other professors were committing "a gross violation of academic ethics and academic freedom". I would add that they also are violating legal ethics. Of course I am biased on this issue . . . Paulsen is my PR instructor.

Peace out (and I mean peace . . . out)

Ivan – do I need to calm down?

--T

la Rana said...

La Rana will bite. I'd have to agree with you Ivan, the professors letter was not overly convincing. Which, yes, leaves a sort of viewpoint discrimination. Is that 'conservative' viewpoint discrimination? No. Its a viewpoint of a different order. La Rana would like to call the bluff of those who oppose the delahunty appointment (or least the bluff of many):

The Ethical and investigatory points simply do not hold water, for the reasons elucidated by Ivan. Delahunty is undesireable because of what he worked to acheive.

One works to an end. A prosecutor works to maximize the utility of the criminal process, even reduce crime. The defense atty serves a similar purpose and perhaps one larger. The atty who represents the guilty and dispicable works to uphold the adersarial system he/she believes in. Our conception of justice relies on this work, with faith that the system works. Many other lawyers work for money (just bare with me for a second, I am not saying this is a bad thing).

What can Delahunty say? That he worked for a client and that client was the government? La Rana does not believe in this lawyer-client shield/foil. Only lawyers would say such a thing, and I object to the implications that somehow lawyers are fulfilling the collective democratic dream by making sure every bad idea has a champion. Its self-referential apologetics.

Delahunty, in no uncertain terms, worked to ensure the the executive branch of the U.S. government was not legally cuplable for the intentional infliction of pain on other human beings.

THAT is why he is opposed. On the utility of opposition to his appointment, however, La Rana remains undecided.

Anonymous said...

All in all, the opponents' argument is about ideology, purportedly under the guise of "legal ethics." I consider myself a liberal, but the opponents have waged such a thinly veiled argument based on "ethics" that it provides no reason not to support the hiring of an obviously qualified individual who, by all accounts, is a strong teacher.

Had the individual in question been a liberal, this debate would have never arisen.

Anonymous said...

Yates: The argument is that the memorandum constitutes such subpar legal analysis that authors Yoo and Delahunty are either (a) incompetent or (b) wrote it in bad faith.

Remember, the job of the OLC is to provide objective legal advice to the President, and he will rely upon this (due to his constitutional responsibility to execute faithfully in accordance with the Constitution, and the Court's unwillingness to issue advisory opinions). The job is decidedly not an advocate position. I think it's impossible to read the memo and not, given the otherwise allegedly highly intelligent status of Yoo and Delahunty, to think anything other than that the memo was penned in bad faith (which is an ethical violation of his obligations as an OLC attorney, and given the foreseeable and actual consequences, constitutes a war crime).

Interesting to note that the Deans have effectively said that they would not have hired him had they bothered to research him and made this association, ain't it?

So we've got: Delahunty is incompetent (in which case he should not be teaching at UMN). Or else Delahunty seriously violated his ethical responsibilities as an OLC attorney and should not be teaching at UMN. It's also worth noting that he teaches at a barely accredited university (great qualification!) and students at St. Thomas are of the opinion that while he is a nice guy, he is a bad teacher (yay! for bad teachers!... wait).

--Mouse

Anonymous said...

Mouse: it was such an incompetent, subpar, bad-faith legal argument that it was endorsed by an appellate judge?

and that judge, after displaying his own obvious lack of legal competence, was then confirmed by the Senate to be the Chief Justice of the United States?

I guess John Roberts is unqualified to teach at the U.

And David Weissbrodt, who is a phenomenal negligence professor, would probably feel uncomfortable working with him, being a "decent human being" and all.

Yates


P.S. I understand some are alleging not that Delahunty gave deficient advice, but that it wasn't objective. Well, I'm reading the memo here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/012202bybee.pdf

and I see this: "It might be argued that, even though it is not a State party to the Geneva Conventions, al Quaeda could be covered by some protectoins in Geneva Convention III. . ." (page 9)

Explain to me how that's not addressing counterarguments?

Anonymous said...

Yates, you're not even reading the memo in question. You want the January 9, 2002 one; you've got January 22.

try here instead

Love,
Mouse

Anonymous said...

eeek, embarassing. well, the first half of the comment still stands.

Yates